#Morally gray character Nathalie

[rosellerivers19]

The Adventures of Shady bug and Claw noir: My version continued here’s some lore

To those who remember this post I ended up finally finishing coloring it and I’ll post it next

So to give a little explanation before the Paris special was released a bunch of people thought it would be about the alternative universe characters being the complete opposite of the original. Inspired by a few of the posts I made my own headcanons.

The Paris special ended up being way different but I still enjoy my own personal AU.

In my personal AU there is Nice Chloe, Shy Luka, Mean Marinette and Adrien, Hero Gabriel, Morally gray character Nathalie, Villain Emille, Main hero Alya and Nino. And maybe a evil master fu

These are the tropes that were created to be the opposite of the original MLB characters. Since Chloe is originally a bully I made her a nice girl in this AU similar to original Adrien and actually have been friends with Marinette at one point. Nathalie was a gray characters in the original at least the original seasons as her goals changed so I decided to do the same in this one but with different purpose. Marinette and Adrien are obviously the villains in this twist scenario and like in the actual special Alya and Nino would be main character heroes since in the original they were side characters.

However I do expand in the characters beyond this trope like Marinette’s meanness comes from her Negligent/Broken Dupaincheng family and that’s why she prefers to be a loner and hates the agreste family a locally owned boutique. She bumped into Gabriel agreste once while she was in a bad mood he was very nice to her and even gave her a beautiful dress he made himself saying since he didn’t have a daughter he didn’t have anyone to give it to and would appreciate if she took it even as she denied saying it was precious. Marinette envied Adrien seeing as he had such a nice father but seemingly took him for granted.

Adrien had a twisted sense of love because of his mother Emille who ended up accidentally dying. His mother was manipulative, toxic and emotionally abusive and Adrien was forced under her regulations even if Adrien maybe subconsciously knew this was bad or wrong he still mourned her death like he mourned Gabriel’s in the London special because she was his mother. And because he was always compared to Emile and well his life was primarily dictated by her methods he grew up thinking that was love. Gabriel wasn’t able to stop this abuse outright and didn’t even know how bad it was till too late a few weeks before she died Gabriel argued with her about this. He feels guilt for having such a fight so soon before her death but her death was how Gabriel discovered Evil Master fu (it’s called something else in the actual special) and how he became a hero it was Emile’s dying gift acknowledging how her parenting style wasn’t the best.

Adrien being so used to his mother’s abuse thought love wasn’t kind and gentle hugs but shouting and indifference and bonking people on the head like Marinette does. He was attracted to her because of this and doesn’t like Gabriel’s sweet kind love feeling like it’s weird and fake.

Twist Luka is more like original Juleka in this AU he’s more shy doesn’t speak much but music is his solitude his father is still Jagged stone but him leaving his mother hurt him to the point he became less outgoing while Juleka became mean and cruel instead.

Luka is one of Marinette’s only real friends but Marinette just convinced herself that he’s just a project she’s working on because she’s bored. The project is to make him braver.

Marinette isn’t an outright bully but can be very cruel to people she doesn’t like. Kind of like Lila with elaborate schemes but not the insane lying part.

Alya and Marinette aren’t friends in this AU and Alya actually dislikes Marinette.

Alya isn’t dating Nino either since they’re supposed to be the main character super hero duo like the original ladybug and Chatnoir. Not because they’re scared necessarily it’s because well Alya is really awkward with her feelings and she knows Nino likes her but she doesn’t think this is the right time with the villain still at large. They subtly flirt though.

oh and I think I ship Luka and Adrien in this AU as seen by the art so I think Luka would be Adrien’s bi awakening and he’d slowly become used to the sweet love because of him. He’s convinced that Luka is his rival though while Luka thinks they’re friends.

Zoe and Marinette would also be enemies to lovers with Zoe being the new kid at school trying to take Marinette’s Queen Bee spot gets frequently have confrontations before they realize they have feelings for eachother when Zoe flirts with Shadybug and Marinette realizes she likes it.

This is my au so I decide to ship whatever I want with no regrets

[plumsaffron]

I think some to most of the miracubitches can’t tell the differences between morally gray characters (some of these characters make hard choices even if it hurts. But some fanfic writers can’t do it correctly either!), characters’ alternate POV (they weren’t there at the incident(s) so they’re more akin to being stuck in the middle or trying to avoid unnecessary petty conflict, they ain’t drones for the supposedly “beloved” protagonist) and just plain bashing…

And that’s not good for their fragile lil sanity…

Miracuhoes also can’t tell the difference between the canon and fanon versions of the main characters they supposedly love. 😔

They won’t admit it but some are lowkey rah-cist against white ppl due to painting Adrien as an abusive spoiled rich brat. Bruh, Adrien is an abuse victim!

Oh man, I personally think that the Lila/Cerise/Iris demonization isn’t as bad as most ML characters but the miracubozos just love to keep on being negative about her. 😬

Canon Lila: just a skilled actress who’s also a master manipulator? Still an antagonist though, probably never went as far as her Fanon selves?

Fanon Lila, we can thank the many fanfic writers’ dedication of creating more “depth” for her: some lies flop, leading to her downfall, instant prison time. Sociopathic and possibly psychopathic? (Inter)national criminal, she must’ve bullied other students (to hurt or off themselves…) from previous schools she went to all bc they called her out and didn’t fall for her lies. (Ngl, these days I feel more sympathy for these victimized fan characters than Marinette.) Instigating ass bitch, telling her mindless sheep followers to beat up her enemies. Let’s not forget these writers making Lila into a s3x offender bc some of the make victims rejected her. In retaliation, she makes them look like the offender, ruining them...

Hmm drones. It’s be a huge shame if I were to learn that these miracudung piles hate that sentimonster thing. From the observing these miracupests enough, long enough, it’s almost as if they advocate it entirely, simply because the character(s) they wanted to participate in doing for them, didn’t participate in their miracusuckoff cult for their protagonist or themselves. It’s almost as if miracudrones want characters to be sentis. Could it be that miracubitches want to be obedient miracusentis themselves?

I wonder if they want Gabriel, Tomoe, or Nathalie to be their parent(s)

But they must not see the difference of fanon vs canon of the their beloved main character(s). Fanon in their minds needs to be the superior version no matter the cost. If it’s not seen as how they think all canon should be for the characters, the glass of their sanity might break for these thirsty miracuhoes (with the bonus condition at times fulfilled of ignore the cases when they do or succeed what they opposed in canon).

Sigh. Seems these scuds don’t want to acknowledge and accept what a victim is or rather the ultimate victim of the show, Adrien, is. I don’t think they’re racist. I think they are possessed by evil. JUST KIDDING; some probably are racist or are the evil. Sigh… these miraccidents are too far gone. Gabuse slurpers they are I suppose too… well abuse slurpers. They must worship this image

But I’m not surprised cause that image is a actually a tragic reflection of how easily people would brush off what happened to Adrien (Most recently the London Special, where people are like yay hugs between Marinette Adrien or Nathalie. *UWU Sobbery intensifies* Or Ladybug and Cat Noir togetherness at the end of the special). Idk maybe they are casuals or just like seeing such crumbs or seeing what next, but it’s like they are glorifying or ignoring a victim being screwed with along with the characters in the special so called on his side (including the fugly Bunnyx trio and unfortunately Kwamis)

Wonderous how somethings shown in their faces consistently can be cancelled out and then scrambled up to make it out to be its Adrien’s fault somehow or Adrien is the problem. Cancellation of what was established and revealed and reinforced of existence. And so these maggots will make crap up for defamation against him and pass it around as if it's the truth. Sigh… Unfortunate how a victim won't or don’t be out to be causing problems, had different POVs, doing good and supporting others, caring for others and their well being, and unfortunately sacrifices himself and happiness, still gets shortended or screwed over (and currently continues; seemingly on the beloved protagonist’s side). And yet the reward some of these miraccidents gave him is to label him an abusive spoiled rich brat.

It could be. But yeah they Lila negativity be ridiculously spammed to the point I straight up usually refrain looking her up outside of here and even here I’m kind of like eh-ish.

Hmph I guess they want to leak fanon Lila in canon while doing the usual of not thinking things through because of their unstable obsession against her. Downfall addiction these miracusnorters have (figures since lies exposed crap is a worthless thing too many losers rodeo rode on). Psycho, socio, yep fanon or fandom braindeadium charge. It’s not that different from losers being the first to designate her to such. I wonder if it’s because they secretly know that what they label her might get redirected another character so labeling her is a twisted defense mechanism of theirs to prevent someone else from being targeted possibly.

Welp currently going on I know of is fancomic of Lila being a psychotic serial killer yandere or something currently, and getting folded by Chloe after Chloe saves Marinette. Chloe told her she’ll go to jail while Alya films what’s happening. Hmm international criminal. Yep hearing that again and remember of some bloggers posts of that crap makes be me groan.

Bullied others in the past. Hmm I remember an ask about that someone else posted to another blogger here. It’s funny cause they act like elementary children don’t exist. That Kim Sabrina Chloe or Marinette aren’t real (no offense). What are they trying to prove (oops I already know it’s that nonsense again because of their selective closed mindedness)? Oh boy to cause them to hurt or end themselves. Big irony of the fic triters to write that considering January 2022 Incident.

Ah instigating Lila. hmm that’s strange. I could have sworn people knew Marinette be instigating or a lot of viewers want to have her friends and Chloe and Sabrina (along with characters from other series) to rally up against Lila to wreck her like I remember at times seeing on here/deviantart. Perhaps they clowns should look at how demented they’ve become. They like assigning crap against her but the mirror scares them or other people around in their face. Strange form of Lila worshipping.

And unfortunately the worst of all their miracupredadvocation. And I thought crap where people make her a breed victim of Adrien/Cat Noir or Marinette/Ladybug was putrid enough (along with miracabomination prompter(s)) and disgusting human romanticizer(s). But I’m not surprised how far certain miracustains gone considering this as one of the reasons I avoid searching Lila Rossi on here or YouTube.

If you you’re wondering, this mistake of existence especially is saying she’s has 21 25 years or is an adult and is spreading that around (like a lot of other disasters on youtube commenters upvoting or usually endorsing it, redditors, at times here, social media etc).

I guess he did

And make to matters worse, very Spanish community alerted of the incident to also be the very community to honor the Lila fangirl by spitting on her grave (yes the rest of the miracatrocious community do but them though too is a big kind of wow), thus in a way, they and other watchers are joining the justifying everything that chased that girl to her end by viewers wanting the absolute worst to be true (and it doesn’t matter who’s affected in or out the show).

They must really wish Lila to not be ignored or to not be accepted and destroyed by any means despite the incident of the girl in real life not being accepted or left alone for accepting and wanting to see more of Lila.

Absence of thinking things through is strong for the miracufeces.

[princess-of-the-corner]

Senti Chloe might be one of the only senti plotpoints I would have been okay with if I'm being honest, like if TA ever got the boot it would be a pretty good way to explain most of her out-of-character actions in s4&5 while kick starting her back onto her Redemption Arc or at least make her neutral/morally-Gray again

Oh yeah like.

If I didn't know that TA would use it as a 'see she's totally evil and has no good' thing, it would be a great plot.

She was programmed to be just like her mother, essentially. But she is her own person with her own free will. So she tries to become something new.

And like. Audrey didn't give a shit. Even when Chloé acted within her programming she wasn't 'exceptional' why should she care what the brat does?

Then Gabriel and Nathalie are like 'Hey look. If you use her Amok to make her awful again, we'll help you out with something else!'. So Chloé is physically forced to be awful against her will. She doesn't know it's against her will entirely, it feels wrong, but she's told this is right and she can't fight against it.

[ao3feed-ladynoir]

And Justice for All

And Justice For All by AsukaLangleySorrow

Since Nooroo and Duusu had fallen into the hands of a mysterious new owner and warned the other kwamis that they might be used for evil, Master Fu designes a plan to put two teenagers in charge of two the most powerful objects, talismans in both the kwami and human world. But the events following this decision unravel in unexprected ways as the teenagers appear to have their own views on the matter and are not so easily swiped up their feet by the promised glory of your typical good-doers and guardians of the weak that a mysterious old man offered with a piece of sketchy jewelery. Together, they form a duo that even Hawkmoth can't rival with. And who knows what their reign of self-identified justice brings to Paris in the end...

Words: 2154, Chapters: 2/2, Language: English

Fandoms: Miraculous Ladybug

Rating: Teen And Up Audiences

Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply

Categories: F/M, Gen

Characters: Adrien Agreste | Chat Blanc, Marinette Dupain Cheng|Lady Justice, Chloe Bourgeois|Vespinemesis, Tikki, Plagg, Wayzz, Alya Césaire, Nino Lahiffe, Gabriel Agreste, Nathalie Sancoeur, Caline Bustier

Relationships: Adrien Agreste|Chat Blanc/Marinette Dupain Cheng|Lady Justice

Additional Tags: reverse au, lady justice, Chat Blanc, Wrecking havoc, marinette and adrien turn out to be a "bad" seed but actually not really, morally gray, catharsis fic for my anger issues, Bullying, master fu is not a good guy, Chloé Bourgeois Redemption, no goody-two-shoes in my fics

Read Here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/46543159

[shysublimecoffee]

Before I begin, I want to make it clear that this discussion isn’t meant to be an attack. My words might come across as strong, but I don’t intend to criticize you personally or make you feel bad, especially to the Original Poster.

There's something to be said about how some fans, particularly those who criticize Adrien, go to great lengths to scrutinize every interaction he has, nitpicking and criticizing him for not perfectly aligning with their expectations. Adrien is genuinely one of the kindest male leads, yet people still find reasons to have issues with him. Anyone who claims that Adrien lacks empathy either hasn't watched the show closely or is twisting his character to fit a negative narrative. Take the "high road" speech regarding Lila, for instance—a stance I actually agree with. He saw right through Lila's motives, understood the situation, and yet the "Chameleon salt" was ridiculous. And don’t get me started on the fanfiction—people will write an entire saga based on one episode vilifying him that wasn’t even that bad or serious, turning other male characters into her "prince charming" like some overblown male fantasy.

It's wild because if you're pointing fingers at someone lacking empathy, it should be the main lead and heroine. If you think Adrien is the one lacking empathy, I strongly disagree. This is the same character who gave Marinette the confidence to become Ladybug, constantly supported her, and was always there for her. In contrast, Marinette, who has been a poor partner and kept secrets from Chat Noir, seems to struggle with empathy. I think Marinette relates to people in a "self-absorbed" way, meaning she can only understand a situation if she somehow makes herself part of it. This causes her to approach issues from a skewed perspective and she's very controlling, where the actual problem doesn’t get properly addressed. It’s a compelling character flaw that, in my opinion, hasn’t been fully fleshed out in the show and never will because of "protagonist-centered morality."

If Marinette were as empathetic as some claim, what about her decisions in "Ephemeral" and teaming up with Luka behind Chat Noir’s back? Or how she tries to reconcile Chloe and her toxic mother? If Marinette had true empathy, she'd understand these situations better, but it seems like she’s avoiding confronting the possibilities when it comes to do for anything with Chat Noir even simple communication or that the world is more shades of gray than in black and white that not everyone has good parents. She’s almost become a second but kinder Gabriel. Whenever CN dares to show emotions , she can’t handle it. But when he’s a doctile people-pleaser, suppressing his own submission for hers, he becomes the ideal partner she wants to keep.

Adrien, a manipulator or gas-lighter? Why on earth are you attaching such heavy, damaging labels to someone who is clearly a victim? It’s disgraceful, honestly, that anyone would even have the audacity to do so. If you’ve watched the show or even Season 5, you’d know those terms apply to Gabriel Agreste, not Adrien. And let’s not pretend Marinette, Felix, Kagami, or Nathalie are completely innocent either. Adrien’s autonomy has been ripped from him, his life controlled and manipulated, and yet people have the nerve to paint/cast him as the villain?

It’s strange, too, because Chat Noir is the heart of this operation while Ladybug is more of the brain. And if you’ve been paying attention, you’ll notice that Adrien has increasingly taken on the role of the heroine in later seasons. Remember It's Adrien wearing the dress in this relationship and being saved by Knight Marinette. The dynamic has shifted , and this whole "lack of empathy" argument falls flat when you realize it's a role reversal of what we usually get from other shows happening here. Yes, Adrien has flaws, but what’s truly infuriating is how those flaws are constantly suppressed, twisted, or outright ignored to cater to Marinette. It’s as if the entire fandom—and even Astruc and the writers—have collectively agreed that Adrien exists solely to serve her narrative, with his own struggles and complexities swept under the rug.

I’m going out on a limb here, but maybe some of you are projecting way too much onto Marinette—like she’s your self-insert. It’s insane how, just like in the show, Adrien’s tiny faults are blown out of proportion, scrutinized to hell and back by the audience, while Ladybug’s flaws are conveniently overlooked. Why? It’s almost as if you’re Gabriel, demanding Adrien be the perfect male lead, without a single flaw. He may be the designated love interest, but he’s a character in his own right, with his own struggles—struggles that are arguably far worse. I hate playing the suffering Olympics, but it’s true—he’s literally become her therapist in Season 5. What more do you want from him? He has no one to lean on besides Plagg, while Ladybug is surrounded by an entourage of yes-men and women. He’s isolated, forced to bear the weight of his world alone, while she’s propped up at every turn.

If anything, Marinette/Ladybug doesn’t deserve him.

People are absurdly sensitive to any mistake Chat Noir or Adrien makes in the show, to the point of claiming, “He has no empathy,” or labeling him a manipulator—labels that completely contradict his character. It’s insane how they demonize him for things that simply aren’t there, driven by an unreasonable need to find fault where none exists. The sheer lack of media literacy in this fandom is staggering, especially when it comes to distorting the narrative to fit their own fantasies. If this were AO3 or Fanfiction, sure, you’d have free rein to craft your version of Adrien. But newsflash: your fanon Adrien and canon Adrien aren’t even remotely alike or similar.

The entire Love Square started because, from the very beginning, it was Adrien's kindness that touched Marinette's heart. In "Origins," it wasn’t his looks that drew her in, although they were mentioned often throughout the show she's thirsty lol —it was the moment when he offered her the umbrella as a sincere gesture of apology. That simple act of kindness was what truly made her see him for the first time. Adrien recognized Marinette’s discomfort and took action to ease it, offering her the umbrella not just as an apology, but as a way to connect with her on a human level. It's his ability to understand and respond to others' emotions that defines his character, showing that empathy is at the very core of who he is despite what anyone in the audience says otherwise. He's had a rough and terrible home life but that never stopped him from being a good boy and trying to reach out to others we have to commend him for that!! And I'm tired of being the only one to see it. He's a strong kid.

What’s next? Adrien was cruel for laughing at her? How dare he! 😂 (sarcasm, obviously). This fandom honestly.. is something.

I’ve been thinking about how Adrien is generally not an empathetic person. He’s well mannered and generally nice but I’ve yet to see him share a moment of vulnerability with someone that wasn’t about himself. There were the times he’s given Ladybug pep talks but he never seems legitimately concerned for her emotional well-being, simply smiling after she hugs him instead of showing any interest in why she was feeling the way she was and how he could help her. He literally felt the pressure she’s under every day and didn’t feel any need to change himself to help alleviate it. Of course, a large portion of empathy is learned and he hasn’t had great examples and sometimes people just don’t have the energy to genuinely care and all that but the point remains: Adrien rarely thinks about other people’s feelings. Despite how it sounds, this isn’t a criticism of him, just an observation.

[thetardisisnotourdivision]

Right I'm sorry I should be doing homework but that episode was absolutely flawless and my whole body feels like it's screaming so I need to rant.

Nathalie's arc. Of going from kind of Adrien's stepmum but also basically robotic and dedicated to her work, to all-out villain, to morally-gray but protective and loving is EVERYTHING. Every time she speaks to Gabriel in this episode starts with her yelling at him and ends with a soft look. I have never shipped gabnath EVER but I appreciate how we've seen the relationship between these two grow and change. At the end she must have realised something was wrong and carried him back up from the lair, ALL WHILE LITERALLY DYING HERSELF. Nathalie is absolutely an underappreciated character and I will probably make a more coherent post at some point analysing this episode in further detail.

But the parts where they discuss their deaths... where they talk about finding a "permanent solution" for Adrien, and at the end when they realise they will likely both die before they can make sure Adrien's safe... they broke me. Those two scenes BROKE me. I was supposed to be revising for my French exams but instead I'm CRYING MY EYES OUT because the VILLAINS are dying. I didn't even care about Gabe dying before, I basically just laughed, but in this episode I actually felt bad for him, I felt frustrated on Nathalie's behalf, I felt their despair over their inevitable doom. This episode was PERFECT. Now excuse me while I go cry.

MLB Intuition

Oh... My god...

Oh my god...

I'm actually crying help me, this is the episode that broke me istg what the fuck why do I have all these FEELINGS.

This is so SAD. I laughed in some places but overall this episode broke me like no episode ever has before. Nathalie and Gabriel are both very aware that they're both dying, and the contrast between that and Adrien's smile is heartbreaking. "Very little time" I'M ACTUALLY SOBBING. I'll probably make a far more coherent post later with all the reasons why this is such a sad episode but I just don't have enough energy for it rn because this episode sapped it all.

Nathalie is literally my favourite character, I don't want her to die!!!! Gabriel I don't care quite so much but it's quite clear what happened at the end and I'm CRYING why did they DO this. S5 has gone downhill in many ways but THIS ONE EPISODE hits so hard in all the right places. Absolute masterpiece. I'm sobbing. This post should be tearstained.